Episode 84: Farm Trucking 101 with Leah Curtis

 Main Topics Covered

1. Farm Trucking Laws and Exemptions: Discussion on CDL exemptions for farmers, including Ohio law and federal exemptions, and the conditions under which these apply. 
2. Intrastate vs. Interstate Travel: Explanation of the differences and implications for farm trucking, including the impact of crossing state lines.
3. Load Restrictions and Safety Regulations: Overview of weight limits, axle limitations, and exemptions for farmers, including the seven and a half percent variance. 
4. Hazardous Materials: Guidelines on transporting hazardous materials and the exemptions applicable to farmers. 
5. Recent Changes and Future Regulations: Information on the ELDT requirements for new CDL holders and the importance of staying informed about potential regulatory changes. 
6. Advice for New Farm Truck Owners: Recommendations for farmers considering purchasing their first truck, including consulting insurance agents and legal counsel. 
7. Common Myths: Addressing misconceptions about the potential removal of farm CDL exemptions.  

 

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Transcription

Speaker 1 (00:08):Welcome to AgCredit Said It, your go-to podcast for insights on farm finance and maximizing your return on investment. Join us as we talk to industry leaders, financial experts, and area farmers, bringing you skillful advice and strategies to grow your farm's financial future AgCredit Said It where farm finance goes beyond the balance sheet.

Phil Young (00:38):Welcome back to another episode of AgCredit Said It where we take you beyond the balance sheet of farm finance. I'm your host, Phil Young. Joining me today is Leah Curtis with the Ohio Farm Bureau Federation, and today we'll be talking about the topic of farm trucking and laws and the do's and don'ts, kind of everything in between. So welcome, Leah.

Leah Curtis (00:57):Hi. Thank you.

Phil Young (00:58):Yeah, thanks for joining us. You're recently a great speaker at our Emerge conference that we host, and so we had really good feedback. I think it was a really well attended session. Farm trucking is one of those things where seems like there's a lot of gray, and so I feel like it always brings out really good questions and it always is helpful to get clarity. So excited to have you on here. But before we jump in, can you tell us a little bit about yourself, who you are, stuff you've done and your background?

Leah Curtis (01:27):Sure. So I serve as Associate general Counsel at the Ohio Farm Bureau Federation. So in that role I advise the public policy department, so that includes reviewing lots of legislation and regulations. I coordinate our litigation advocacy efforts, so we often join lawsuits as what's called an Amicus QI and I oversee that, write the briefs, that kind of thing. And then my team also, along with myself, we provide a lot of member education and resources on legal topics. So particularly my colleague Leah Hetrick, she spends a lot of her time answering questions for our members that they have about things that are happening on their farm or their property or in their businesses. We try to get people information. We can't provide legal advice, but we will help them understand what the law is and then if they do need an attorney, we can help refer them or get them to someone who can help them with their legal needs.

Phil Young (02:23):Okay, nice. Good, good. So yeah, we're talking farm trucking. One of the things I always like to ask is when people find out you have a good knowledge base on this, what are common questions you get that people hit you up for?

Leah Curtis (02:39):So I would say the biggest question we get is typically about CDLs because that is something that people hear about a lot. They know that that's the basic knowledge level, I guess, when it comes to commercial trucking. So a lot of questions about CDL, and then I like to joke that it's always like a stump the lawyer situation. So it's always like, brother's, cousin's sister is going to maybe drive for me and they're going to maybe haul these things. So what do I need to do? And I wish I could tell you everything you need to do, but there is kind of a list of things that people need to consider as they are doing their trucking and their hauling. When it comes to being solely farm transportation, there's a lot less, but a lot of times it's those kind ancillary things or side businesses. That's where we start to get into a little deeper discussion about how that might be regulated.

Phil Young (03:44):Okay, nice. Yeah. So yeah, obviously I think most guys know that there are some exemptions, I guess for AG Trucking. Can you walk us through what those are and what maybe ag people don't have to do and what they do have to do compared to kind of commercial truckers?

Leah Curtis (04:03):So it's a little bit easy, particularly when you're staying inside the state of Ohio. I will say there's lots of different pieces. I think everybody realizes that as a commercial trucking entity, there's lots of things they have to do, right? People who know about the medical card, the drug testing, the training, a lot of those do have exemptions, but they are specific to each piece and part. So there is a medical card exemption. There is a drug testing and substance abuse exemption, but they're all individual. It's not like a bar none thing. When you get to the federal level in the state and when you are staying inside the state, there is a general farm exemption for farmers that are operating entirely within the state. They're hauling their own supplies or products between their farm and a marketplace. There is a law that says farmers are exempt from all of those trucking safety regulations. CDL is a little different. It's not a safety regulation, it's a licensing regulation, but farmers are exempt within the state of Ohio from those trucking safety regulations. So that is things like the medical card drug and substance abuse, vehicle inspection, all those things. As long as they're staying inside the state of Ohio, once they leave the state of Ohio, that's where we have to look at kind of the individual laws and whether there are still exemptions that apply.

Phil Young (05:27):Gotcha. And I think the common vernacular that's used is it's like intrastate travel and interstate travel, right? Intra being within the state. But when I've read, you got to pay attention because they look alike.

Leah Curtis (05:41):Yes. And I always like to highlight to people, so interstate is anytime you leave the state, even if your starting point and destination are within the same state. So I grew up on the eastern side of Ohio. It was very likely that you could be going someplace in Ohio, but you would go up through West Virginia because maybe that was quicker that day. Maybe the traffic was better on that side of the river that makes it an interstate travel. Even if you started in Ohio, went across, drove up through West Virginia, and then came back across into Ohio, that's still an interstate trip because you went into another state.

Phil Young (06:19):Oh, wow. Okay.

Leah Curtis (06:20):Anytime you leave the state, you're going to create an interstate trip versus an Entru state trip.

Phil Young (06:26):Okay. Yep. Yeah, we're right on the state line here, obviously, and we deliver outside, we deliver to Indiana, so it gets a little hairy. Yep, yep. Gotcha. Yeah. So you mentioned CDLs, and can you walk us through requirements, non requirements for CDLs for farmers?

Leah Curtis (06:47):Sure. So farmers actually in Ohio have two overlapping CDL exemptions that remove the need for them to get a CDL. So they are both conditional. They both have requirements. You have to meet the first, I call it the Ohio law exemption because it's been in our Ohio law for a very long time, since about the seventies. That applies to a farmer who is hauling products and supplies. They're not operating for higher and remaining within 150 miles of their farm. So as long as you're staying within that 150 miles hauling your own supplies or products, you're not operating for someone else, then you are exempt from the CDL under Ohio law. Again, overlapping with that exemption is a federal exemption that was created in 2012 called the covered farm vehicle exemption. So again, it has to be a farmer hauling their own products and supplies, not operating for higher few additional conditions here.

(07:44):Also not ever hauling hazardous materials and have some sort of designation that identifies them as a farmer, which is a little dicey. So that can be a farm license plate, and that's what the law specifically mentions. It can also be other ways that the state has created to identify farm vehicles. So as we've talked with the PUCO, which is who regulates trucking here in Ohio, they've said essentially they would interview drivers to determine if they fall under this covered farm vehicle exemption. They wouldn't require a farm license plate necessarily, but again, if you meet those conditions exempt from the CDL within the entire state of Ohio, the entire state of your license, and then also within 150 miles of your farm when crossing state lines, so that does get you some distance into your neighboring states as long as you stay within 150 miles of your farm. Once you get outside that 150 miles of your farm, you're most likely going to need a CDL if you are above that 26,000 gross weight rating or combination rating, because those exemptions for CDL, the Ohio law can only apply in Ohio. The federal law only gets you that 150 miles. Once you get outside of that, you are going to need to probably consider having either yourself or someone who is a driver that's licensed for a commercial driver.

Phil Young (09:17):If someone has, let's say they're only traveling within that 150 and they're intrastate and they have their CDL, is that a bad thing? Does that open a can of worms to have your CDL and hauling your own stuff, or is it an extra hedge of protection to get your CDL or is it better to not even go down that path? It opens up other things,

Leah Curtis (09:42):So I don't think it hurts. I mean, other than of course it does create, you have to renew that CDL and you

(09:50):Want to keep that CDL. You got to keep up with that. As far as the farm exemption, it's not going to really matter in general. There are other exemptions that are limited 150 miles, and what the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration has said is basically, we don't consider you subject to that law until you get outside your 150 miles. So we kind of ignore it until you get to that 150 mile mark. There are people who prefer to have a CDL from an insurance standpoint. They feel like that is just one more, one more protection, risk protection. That person has gone through the training, they've gone through the process of getting that license, but I don't think it hurts anything, but it doesn't really make a difference as far as the farm CDL exemption. And obviously if you're going to be on a trip more than 150 miles, you'll need to have it.

Phil Young (10:48):Sure. Yeah. I think working through this and talking to guys about it, I think obviously the line, and you kind of tease this a little bit on the four higher, not for higher line, and if it's your grain or if it's your cousin's, nephew's uncle that's driving the truck, and it's not really their grain, but they work for the farm. So is that considered for high? Can you walk us through maybe when you say it's your grain or if there's a farm hand that works or it's like a brother or how does that work? The line between four hire and not for hire, and is it your own grain really?

Leah Curtis (11:29):Sure. So I'll start with when we're talking about people who work for the farm or people who are family members of the farmer, the general interpretation of both those CDL exemptions, a farmer would include employees and family members that are hauling that farm's products.

Phil Young (11:48):Okay. It does.

Leah Curtis (11:50):Okay. So that covers the, who's a family member who's, I've never seen a really good definition of how far family goes. Is it like second cousin twice removed? So I can't really say that for sure, but in general, it does include family members and employees. The four hire is sticky and it is a little difficult. A lot of people want to say, well, that just means I'm getting paid. That is not the only way that you could be deemed for hire. Compensation can be more than just money. So it can be in, it can be goodwill. So that does get a little sticky. That gets a little unclear, and I don't have a great definitive line for what is and is not for hire. Definitely for sure. If you are getting paid, that is for hire. And I'll just again note that the CDL exemption applies to hauling a farmer's products and supplies. So the CDL exemption does specifically apply to you hauling the farm's own crops and the farm's own supplies or machinery or equipment or that you're using at that farm. So the exemption itself does speak to, it needs to be the products of that farm that you're operating on behalf of.

Phil Young (13:19):Okay. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah, I think this is a common question I've heard before too is, and I think this is for liability reasons, insurance reasons would be, Hey, I have this farming entity. I have an LLC that operates my farm, it has all the grain in it, and then I'm going to create this separate LLC that just has my trucks in it. It has maybe my truck and trailer in it, and it's farm trucking, LLC. Is there any issues with that having a standalone entity? And it still will be exempt and kind of fall under those same categories because technically and how some people do it is the operating entity writes a check to the far trucking entity and it pays it. Is that technically for hire or because it's all the same operation? It's okay. That's where I think it gets a little bit gray maybe sometimes. I don't know if stuff's cleared up with that or if it's still murky.

Leah Curtis (14:20):I would say that's still murky from my point of view. I think that is where farms need to be working with legal counsel to make sure they're setting up those agreements and those entities and that legal counsel is keeping the CDL exemption and the trucking regulation exemptions in mind when they're doing that. So I'm not going to say, I can't say it's always going to be okay, and I can't say it's never going to be okay because it's going to be dependent on how everything is structured, and I think there's lots of legal counsel out there that can help people, but I would just, if you're working with legal counsel on that type of arrangement, make sure that they also are keeping an eye to these exemptions so that you don't run into any trouble with that.

Phil Young (15:07):Got you. Okay. Yeah, I mean, it sounds like, yeah, obviously if you're hauling grain and farm related stuff within your own operation and it's family totally makes sense. There's really not too many restrictions there, but is there load restrictions as far as specific load rigs? I'm assuming there is on hauling stuff like grain in livestock. Can you speak to that at all?

Leah Curtis (15:32):Yeah, so that's where we have kind of a division between, we have trucking safety regulations, and then we have our normal traffic and vehicle laws here for the state of Ohio. That kind of apply generally. So in general, we have an 80,000 pound weight limit for hauling in the state of Ohio, and most states also have that same weight limit. There are axle limitations that apply. Those are based on what's called the Federal Bridge formula. So there are also federal bridge tables you can look up that already has the math done for you. You can say how many axles you have and distance, and it'll tell you what the weight can be on each axle. So always have to keep that in mind regardless of what you're hauling, you do have those weight limitations. Farmers do enjoy a seven and a half percent variance from those weight limits, so gross weight limit as well as axle limits when they're hauling commodities and livestock. One caveat to that is it doesn't apply in February and March, and I guess the wisdom of that is that's like a freeze and thaw time when roads are a little more susceptible to damage. That's my guess. I don't know for sure. It's

Phil Young (16:42):The 7% you said doesn't apply then?

Leah Curtis (16:44):It does not apply in February. In March.

Phil Young (16:46):Okay. Gotcha. Okay.

Leah Curtis (16:48):Yeah, and then it also does not apply on roads that have been reduced weight for safety, bridges that have a reduced weight or roads that are reduced weight for frost and thaw law. So being in rural areas, we can see that from time to time on our roads. So keep that in mind. But there is a seven and half percent. It's a little bit of a cushion. It takes into account the fact that grain can take on moisture and it can weigh a little bit more, but if you violate that seven and a half percent variance, you are cited and ticketed as if there was no variance. So you immediately get to kind of a higher level of penalty from a ticket standpoint. So that's why you have the cushion, but make sure you don't go above the cushion because it does get you into a pretty high fine. There's actually a possibility of jail time if you are severely overloaded from a weight standpoint on your vehicle. So always take note of that, make sure you stay within those weight limits, stay within that cushion and get you where you need to be without getting into a mess of trouble

Phil Young (17:57):With green like that. I think it doesn't take much to with the moisture and yeah, all that stuff can be tricky. Yeah. Are there things that are kind of off limits, obviously hazardous material, but are there things that like, hey, farmers, you're exempt, but you can't haul this, it doesn't fall in that exemption. Is there stuff that should be wary of to not haul?

Leah Curtis (18:21):So again, the CL, that federal CDL exemption that's more expanded goes beyond the hundred 50 covers the whole state of Ohio. It doesn't allow for hauling hazardous materials at all. The Ohio law would allow for that, but again, you have to stay within 150 miles of your farm. Hazardous materials in general are obviously much more highly regulated. Makes sense. But there are some limited exemptions that apply when you are hauling them only between your farm and fields on local roads. So local roads are definitely not going to be highways. They're going to be more of your township county roads that you're going between your fields on. But any kind of extensive hauling of hazardous materials beyond that kind of just between the field and the farm, there is going to be a significant amount of regulation that applies to that. And so that is something if you need to go further than just between the farmstead and the field, you really need to look into that and make sure you are in compliance because again, there are pretty significant fines and citations when that happens.

(19:34):One of the situations I did highlight in emerge that I always like to bring up to people is I had a situation one time where a gas tank that was empty was hauled much further than the 150 miles farmer had bought it, bought an old one, but it was never cleaned, so it still had technically had gas in it, still had gasoline in it, and that's considered a hazardous material. It was above the size of the container was above the 119 gallon threshold that made it into a commercial hazardous material transport. And since it hadn't been cleaned, it was technically considered that. So you do have to be careful if you're above that 119 gallon mark, that's kind of the general mark for most things that that gets you to the hazardous materials level. And so even something like that gasoline tank that was technically empty technically, but it had not actually been cleaned, it still had residue, it still had probably a little bit in the bottom that created a hazardous material regulatory issue. So always be paying attention to that and make sure you know what you're doing and don't get into big trouble with PUCO.

Phil Young (20:56):Yeah. Yeah. I'm assuming chemical fertilizer manure falls into the hazardous material bucket or

Leah Curtis (21:05):Manure would not, but chemical fertilizers, pesticides, anhydrous, all those things are going to be on that list of hazardous chemicals. There are some great publications from the pipeline, hazardous Materials Administration, P-H-S-M-A, I believe, that has kind of an ag guide to hazardous materials and tells you where common agricultural chemicals also diesel and gasoline, of course, fall in the classes of hazardous materials and what needs to be done for them.

Phil Young (21:45):Nice. Okay. Yeah. Is there any new regs that have just maybe hit the books or stuff that's in the pipeline that our changes are coming? Is there anything for farm trucking or trucking in general that has changed recently in the last five years or stuff that's coming down the pipe maybe?

Leah Curtis (22:05):Yeah, so there hasn't been a law that's changed in the most recent years, at least when it comes to agriculture. Now in general, there was a implementation of a law that was actually passed in 2012, but it did not get fully implemented until, I believe it was 2021 that we call the ELDT requirements. That's early learner driver training for new CDL holders. So again, if you're a farmer, you're under the CDL exemption, this isn't going to apply to you. Also, if you have the seasonal restricted CDL for farm service, this does not apply. But if you're someone who does want a CDL or maybe you have employees that you want to get a CDL, they will have to go through what's called ELDT training. So that is essentially a driver's training course for those who are either getting a new CDL or getting a new endorsement on their CDL or upgrading from a B to an A.

(23:01):It is not like an hours requirement. It's not like you have to be in a classroom for 15 hours or whatever. It's a topical training requirement. You have to have training that meets certain topics, and that's available from commercial trucking schools, but it's also available from a lot of career centers and adult ed areas that can provide that training for you. You have to do that before you finalize your test and get your license. So that is something that people have to think about if they do want to get a CDL. It's a little bit of a longer process than it was before. Other than that, there's not been a lot of changes, nor have I heard of any big changes that are coming at this time. But we always want to keep an eye on things. We always want to watch out for that.

(23:49):It's no secret that trucking is something that people pay a lot of attention to from a safety standpoint, particularly, obviously we've had lots of, everybody can point to some big accident that's happened in their area with a truck that was just terrible. So there's always going to be an eye from lawmakers and regulators on trucking in general. And so that's why we always keep an eye on it too and try to make sure they understand the unique needs of agriculture when it comes to trucking and how that operates within these exemptions and the federal laws.

Phil Young (24:27):I don't know if you, and maybe you can't speak to this, but I guess since there was that change for people who are looking to maybe get their CDL on top of the ELDT training where it's that topical, do you know what the steps are to get your CDL if you're wanting it? Do you know that topical training, and I'm assuming you have to do some in the seat training with an instructor or a written test. Do you know all the ins and outs of that?

Leah Curtis (24:52):Yeah, I don't know. It integrally well, inly well, but generally you need to go and you can get your learners' permit. You take the driving test and the written test from the testing standpoint, I believe you can take one test and then take the other later one part written and then the driving later. But the ELDT does include some on-road, depending on which CDL you want to get. It will include some on-road training as well as the classroom portion of the training. And you can go and apply for your permit, then do your ELDT and then finalize and take your test to get things completed. And the testing center has to have evidence or you have to be in the database that you've completed that ELDT before they'll be able to finalize you.

Phil Young (25:48):Okay. Gotcha. Any advice you'd give to farmers who are just, Hey, we're looking at getting our first truck. They're completely new to this. What would you say they should do? Who should they talk to? Who's their resources and what should they do to?

Leah Curtis (26:07):I think it's a good idea to think about what kind of trips and hauling that you plan to do first, check checkout. We have a really great resource called the Farmer's Truck and Implement Guide that can kind of walk you through generally a lot of the regulations as well as the exemption. So that can help you create a little basic compliance plan. Nothing major, but hey, I know this is the limits of the things I can do within these exemptions, and here's beyond my exemptions. And then of course, I will always plug, make sure you talk to your insurance agent, talk with them about what you plan to do, the types of hauling that you plan to do, because they may have recommendations as well as to the kinds of training or the kind of safety type of vehicle you might want to have. They're going to have lots of advice for you, so always check in with your insurance agent on anything, and that way they can make sure also you have the coverage that you need going forward as well.

Phil Young (27:12):Nice. Yeah. So yeah, insurance agent, probably attorney, yeah, the big ones. Yep. Okay. Yeah. And I want to plug the resource that I think you put together with Farm Bureau, I think, I can't remember what's it called exactly?

Leah Curtis (27:27):Farmer's Guide to Truck and Farm Implements?

Phil Young (27:29):Yes. I found this a year or so ago. It is awesome. Really good. I mean, just very pointed to agriculture, makes it easy to read. I mean, there's a lot there. So I would highly mean we just got our first truck a year and a half ago, I think, and I stumbled upon that and super good resource. So really well done with that. So yeah, my last question's kind of a funny one. I guess. Any myths out there? You've heard any silly stuff you've been asked before, it's like, man, this is a big myth that some people think is out there that's just not true in regard to this topic.

Leah Curtis (28:03):So I hear all the time it pops up randomly that the farm CDL exemption is going away. I can't say that there's not going to be a wild idea to do something ever, but I've never seen any indication of that. In fact, that federal CDL exemption that we talked about, that was added to the law in 2012. So if anything, we've expanded exemptions for farmers in agriculture in the last 20 years. So I've never seen any indication that that CDL Farm exemption is going to go away. And certainly from a Farm Bureau perspective, that is something that we would advocate strongly against. We advocate for the CDL exemption for these exemptions that allow you to, as a farmer, operate particularly within your local areas, get yourself to market and back. And we would be continuing to do that. I always say that might be Tractor Cade level that might be taking our tractors to the State House level if we had to get rid of the cpl.

(29:12):So if you're a Farm Bureau member, you'd be getting an action alert every day on that type of situation. So that's not something I've ever heard realistically from regulators or lawmakers, but yet it seems like every year or so I hear somebody, oh, well, I heard they're going to get rid of it, and so I should just go ahead and get my CDL. I'm like, well, I mean, you can do what you want. If you want to get a CDL, that's certainly your decision, but I've never heard any indication that that CDL exemption is going to go away.

Phil Young (29:44):Good. Well, yeah, that hopefully makes people feel better. Yeah, there's always rumors and yeah, you see articles or tweets or whatever, it's like not true. Yeah.

Leah Curtis (29:52):Yeah. Don't believe everything you read on the internet.

Phil Young (29:54):Yeah. Right. Yeah. Well, good. Hey, one last thing. Any other as we wrap up here, anything we didn't talk about that you think maybe farmers should know or there's something we skipped over that you think you should share about this topic?

Leah Curtis (30:09):I think, as I said before, just where I see problems come up the most often is when we have kind of side businesses or ancillary businesses that are not actually the farm where we get to the limits of those exemptions. That's where things start to come up. So I'd always be careful with that. And then the last thing I'd say is we are so blessed in the state of Ohio that we have a great relationship of agriculture and law enforcement. And our law enforcement is very well-versed for the most part in our ag exemptions and how they operate. And so we are very lucky that we don't run into a lot of issues. When we first made that Farm Implement guide, we provided that to all of the state Trooper Barracks. We provided it to the Buckeye Sheriff's Association too initially. And so I think they have done a lot of great work on making sure all of our law enforcement understand those exemptions. And so we are allowed to get things done without having to prove these exemptions all the time. And that's just something we're really lucky to enjoy here in Ohio. It's not the same in other states.

Phil Young (31:20):Nice. Good. That's good to know. Good. Well, Leah, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you for, yeah, really appreciate your insight. And to our listeners, thanks for tuning into another episode of Ag Credit set it. We'll be back again. So thank you guys.

Speaker 1 (31:41):Thank you for listening to AgCredit Said It. Be sure to subscribe in your favorite podcast app or join us through our website at AgCredit.net so you never miss an episode.